Have you ever wondered what it would belike for the Palestinians under Israel occupation to negotiate a settlement and peaceful solution for their freedom and homeland?  Does it strike you as to how the super powers take the position of the so called "peace broker", rather than the basic implementation of international law according to international courts, and the United Nations resolutions.  Imagine what it maybe like for a rape victim to negotiate a workable arrangement with her rapist - while she is still subjected to the same crime on daily basis.  Perhaps this explains how the Palestinians accepted a peace deal with only 22% of their land, yet the very next day, Israel decided to expand, annexed more land from this 22% portion in the form of "settlements", a term that has a nice ring to it.

So, what goes on inside the mind of a Zionist, how is it like for someone like you and me, who is not under the stress of occupation, living in a very comfortable environment - let's say in Southern California, to engage in a hypothetical negotiation with a Zionist who is equality living a very comfortable life in New York.  Can such two people come to an agreement and offer a glimpse of hope?  Here is an actual conversation:

MuslimBridges: Peace be upon you. I just sent you a short film, Distinguishing between Judaism and Zionism.  Noticing many don't know the difference.  We have to do a better job from both ends to make this clear, to unite together, and stand against Zionism on one side, and extremists on the other. 

So, do you support one nation, one vote living together in peace?

Peace be to you


Zionist: Arabs can stay in Israel, if they accept Jewish sovereignty  and the 7 laws of Noah.

MuslimBridges: What are the 7 laws of Noah and how do they only apply to Jews, not to Muslims and Christians? Can you apply equal rights and equal votes with the term "Jewish sovereignty"?

Zionist: Judaism does not believe in democracy (voting by majority). The Bible says that the land belongs to the Jews. Period. 

 Jews are supposed to have a Jewish king. See Samuel 1.

Other people can inhabit other land anywhere in the world. But God says that this land belongs to the Jews. 

You can even live in Israel but only under the conditions I mentioned (7 Noah laws and acceptance of Jewish Torah King).

The 7 laws of Noah apply to ALL mankind including Christians and Muslims. These laws predate those religions. They were followed by Adam and Noah. 

The 7 laws are: 

1. Do not worship idols
2. Do not murder
3. Do not steal
4. Do not commit adultery, homosexuality, beastiality or the other forbidden relationships.
5. Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it was still alive.
6. Do not blaspheme God's name.
7. Set up courts of justice to enforce these laws and keep everyone in line.

If these laws are accepted and you accept limited rights in Israel, you can live there according to the Torah and you will be treated well. We would work together to make the land better. 

Or you can live with full rights in any other land that you wish.

MuslimBridges: Thanks for the clarification.  Don't you think Muslims would have a problem with these 7 laws as they are consistent with Islam.

What are the borders of Israel according to what you believe God has granted you, who is the King of Israel, and what about the people who have different interpretation of your bible - such as Christians or Muslims?


Zionist: There are no different interpretations of this. The Bible is black and white. The borders are from the "Nile to the Euphrates". 

The Jewish king must be appointed by a prophet and the Sanhedrin. This is also in the Bible. The next Jewish king will be the Messiah. I believe that will be Rabbi Menachem Schneerson.

Muslims seem to have a problem with these 7 laws because they just killed 9 Jews in Jerusalem for no reason. That is a violation of the 7 laws.

MuslimBridges: I appreciate your clarification. You see, to build a solid foundation for peace, one must understand the point of view of the other. You are helping us to develop this better understanding. Hope you don't mind further clarifications.

When you speak of the bible, do you mean the Torah, or do you mean the New Testament? Keep in mind that Jews do not follow the New Testament.

How are you going to get the land that was promised to you by God - meaning the remaining parts to cover this region from the Nile to the Euphrates, and is it  permissible to use force to get it?

Finally, how do you feel about Orthodox Jews who have different interpretation of the Torah, and are against the creation of the state of Israel?


Zionist: I don't mind further clarifications at all.

When I say "Bible" I mean the Torah. The five books of Moses and the rest of the Tanach. The Talmud is also Torah, though it is man's explanation on the Torah. 

The "New Testament" is not a new testament. It is written by men. It has many human errors. It is not written or even dictated by God. 

Had the Jews been safe, I would not have been in favor of the creation of the state through force until the Messiah comes. 

I am waiting for the Messiah and then I believe is the right time for the borders to expand to include all of the Biblical territory. 

But right now the Messiah is not here. 

However, right now there are also Jews are in danger in Israel. 
Muslims all around them are calling for another holocaust against them, God forbid. In such a situation the Jews MUST hang on to their state and not even speak of giving up any more land. 

Not because we have a commandment to have a state right now. 

But because Jewish lives are at steak. We have a commandment to do whatever it takes to save Jewish life. 

These Naturei Karta traitors (he is referring to the Orthodox Jews who oppose the State of Israel, and Zionism) have forgotten how important it is to save a Jewish life. They, in their sick mindset, do not even consider most of the Jews in Israel Jews, just because they are not religious. 

This is sick. A Jew is a Jew no matter how religious he is. 
And we have an obligation to protect those Jews there with everything we have. 

In order to achieve the safety of the Jewish people in that land we should do whatever it takes. I think a good solution would be to offer the Arabs living there, monetary compensation to leave Israel, so that Jews can maintain a majority there and be free of many of the terrorist attacks that are taking place now. 

Israel SHOULD use force to ensure the survival of the Jewish people when it is attacked from its enemies. A quick and serious retaliation against these enemies would actually be the best thing for both the Jews and the Muslims.

MuslimBridges: Many take the same position you took about the New Testament ranging from "flat out" refusing it as a man made book, to a more tolerant position in Islam where we believe it contains scripture, but is not in its original text - modified by man, especially in the areas where it is in direct conflict with the Quran (there are about 4 areas of key differences). But the very same views and rules also do apply to the Old Testament! The fact that it is not available today in its original text contains man made additions, and no one can produce an original copy, or a copy of a copy.

So, since there are areas of doubts, why not start with the areas which everyone is in agreement. 

You were saying, the Torah does not instruct you to develop a State, and when the Messiah comes, then your State will be established between the two rivers - perhaps peacefully because Muslims also believe in the second coming of the messiah -, and as you know, it was not the Muslims who prosecuted the Jews during the holocaust, and throughout history, it was the Muslims who rather have protected the Jews, and were proud to have them as part of the society; in places of power in governments, and even today, many successful marriages are based on interfaith families, Muslims & Jews. So many Muslims and Christians used to be Jews at one point in history who converted willingly and peacefully. 

With this background, why not resolve the conflict temporarily until the messiah comes by having equal rights, no oppression or fights from either side, eliminate the reason for any conflicts by having one person -one vote? 

Just think about it, no more bloodshed, no more feelings that you took my land, no, this belonged to me first, give it back, no you go away, here is some money go find another place to live.... What is it that makes a Jew hesitate and rethink this path, which seems the best way for peace and prosperity to all people? 

Really, asking you to think "outside the box", because the same question was posed to the whites in S. Africa, and they were afraid to be out-numbered by the blacks. Look, the blacks did not take revenge, now they cooperate, and the whites are still in power. The conditions for the blacks have improved and they all live much better now, focusing on positive issues - development and prosperity. As a Jew, wouldn't you be happier with this model of equal rights, one person one vote than a continuous wars and struggles until the Messiah comes?


Zionist: I find it interesting that you use South Africa as an example. 

When the blacks took power, the country turned into a hell. 

South Africa is now the murder capital of the world, the children with HIV capital of the world, the child rape capital of the world and no white person can walk safely unless he has his own private security. 

The same sort of chaos would reign if there was equal rights in Israel. The Arabs would quickly outnumber the Jews and they would run the country as they have run all the other countries; I know well how Jews are treated in Arab countries. They are not treated near as well as these Arabs are treated in Israel. 

The bottom line is this: if the Arabs would put down their guns, there would be no more war. If the Jews would put down their guns there would be no more Jews. 

Those are the harsh facts. 

You have good intentions, but you are not living with us here in reality. 

In reality most Muslims want the Jews either converted or dead and you know it's true. 

MuslimBridges: Just spent few moments to research if the violence you indicated in S. Africa was increased as a result of ending Apartheid, or if it was consistent with the same levels in prior periods.  Indeed it is high (19,000 murders per year, even higher than our 12-14,000 rate here in the US), but interestingly it was 25,000 per year during the era of white rule.  So, it is a deeper problem, and seems to be reduced by 20% since then.

Also reflect on the same situation here in the US when black slaves were freed.  Many had the same concerns you expressed and feared they out numbered the white and would take revenge, but it was not the case.  It is true, it has taken generations, but stability, integration, and progress is taking place in our society.

Anticipate the progress in the M. East to reach better success in shorter time than the example of S. Africa, and our earlier history here in the US.  One does not have to go far; simply look at the good relations and cooperation in Palestine before 100 years ago - before Zionism.

Fear of prosecution, punishment, or retaliation should not be justified to continue to wage war and oppress an entire population, not to mention violate the very principles of Judaism and the 7 laws of Noah (peace be upon him).  There is nothing good that comes out of the current situation, which will continue and get worse. 

Dear Cousin, Peace of mind is priceless. Don't fear justice.

You are speaking about consequences to Zionism, an era after Zionism, justified by self-defense.  But, really don't want to get into which act is justified and which is not.  Just look at the time period before Zionism, it was a completely different type of relationships.  The difference between night and day.  God willing, we can bring this era of peace and cooperation again, but it will only happen when justice is applied.  Also reflect that this world, it is not a perfect place, this is part of our test.  Matters will be settled and people will be judged on Judgment day.  This life is just a test.  Prophet Noah (peace be upon him) who lived a very long live said "life is like a room with two doors, you enter it from one, and exit from the other".

Zionist: Blacks in this country are causing a TREMENDOUS amount of crime and rape since they were freed. 

These are really bad examples. 

I want peace as much as you do. Probably more. 
But I understand that allowing the Arabs to become a majority in Israel will lead to another holocaust, God forbid, against the Jews, not peace.

____________________

We are interested to hear your comments.  For 60 years, international law, basic human rights, and even the very tenants of Judaism are prevaricated, and challenged by a monopoly of a powerful minority, this 100 year old concept called Zionism.  Can Orthodox Jews, true religious representatives of the Jewish faith emerge to lead a successful revolt against Zionism?  Shouldn't ordinary people of faith support these efforts and work together for genuine peace movement, weigh-in to apply basic human rights and international law?   Peace in the holly land will bring peace beyond its boarders.  God willing, it can happen soon, may Allah show us the way.

This article is posted in the Weekly Bridge Publication: Features, Reflections, Stories should not be told, Film in a spoon, Book in a Spoon, Letters to Editor, YouTube Basket

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